TOA “Breakaway” League Moves Forward (UPDATED)
UPDATE FROM USL
USL has responded to the application by the TOA members with a somewhat predictable press release. But most interesting is that USL in opposing the new league’s application is alleging a certain degree of public misrepresentation and if we were to take a leap of faith, fraud in the TOA’s public posture. FIFA regulations do not state that sanctioned leagues must be club owned. The USL is alleging that by perpetuating a false premise for splitting from the league, the TOA application should be rejected.
While the USL is legally correct, I have found exactly zero professional first or second divisions in major football playing nations that are not club owned OR operated. Those leagues cited by USL that are run by national Federations, whose board are elected by the clubs in the league, and often times consist exclusively of club representatives. So in fact, USL’s own statement is a little bit misleading on this front.
FIFA regulations may not require club ownership, and the TOA was likely in error to allege so. However, it seems to be an established international precedent that the clubs manage the leagues they participate in. USL will be hard pressed to cite a major football league abroad that operates in the same fashion as they do.
This having been said, on the legal principle the USL and not the TOA is correct. But the USSF is a governing body that deals with its fellow federations all the time, and may be urged not to rule in USL’s favor because the precdent of club owned and managed leagues is so established in world football.
Additionally, USL has wisely cited the contributions the league has made since 1986 to the maintenance and ultimately the growth of the game in this country. Without USL, it is doubtful the sport in the US and Canada would have developed to the extent it has.
On the surface, the USL response has great merit. However, I am a little perplexed by the bitter sounding shot at both the Vancouver and Montreal franchises at the end of the statement which can be found here. Countless examples of clubs who felt they failed because of a lack of interest from USL’s head office can be cited in response. Whether these club owners were justified in expecting help from USL can be debated, but by including the statement about the two Canadian clubs, the league has opened the door for more controversy and bitter feelings.
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Last week, we reported on the preemptive moves by USL to stop a TOA breakaway league. Today, the remaining TOA members (minus Tampa Bay who has returned to the USL First Division as mentioned last week on this site) have announced that they are going ahead with a breakaway league. Montreal Impact owner Joey Saputo will serve as the Chairman of the new leagues Board of Governors while Jeff Cooper will serve as the league’s spokesperson.
The league has applied for second division status from the USSF and first division status from the Canadian Soccer Association. Currently, the TOA league has only seven teams but are seeking partnerships with clubs around the globe and are working on potentially adding more teams for 2010.
“This is not your typical new league,” Saputo said. “Most of our teams have existed for years. We have united some of the best owners, teams and markets around a new vision for a professional soccer league in North America.
“This will be a league that will offer the best of both worlds – outstanding experience and leadership at the ownership level combined with the promise and ability to chart our own course for success as a new league,” Cooper said. “It’s this structure that motivated me to bring St. Louis into the new league, and why I believe the new league will have a lot of success at launch next year and well into the future.”
The seven teams that make up the TOA and have applied for the breakaway league are as follows:
Atlanta Silverbacks, Carolina Railhawks, Miami FC, Minnesota Thunder, Montreal Impact, St Louis United, Vancouver Whitecaps
The Whitecaps will move to MLS in 2011 but are likely to support another side in this league. While applications have been filed with the appropriate governing bodies, a return to USL is not completely out of the question for these teams. However, that possibility is looking less and less likely.
UPDATE
We are still working on getting some quotes for our readers. I can report that a source inside the TOA confirms what our poster J writes about the possibility of going back to USL for one or more of these clubs. However, I am told that possibility is increasingly unlikely.
Another issue is Vancouver’s involvement. It has been confirmed for me that a criteria for sanctioning by the USSF is that a new professional league (1st, 2nd or 3rd division) have teams in at least three time zones. With Puerto Rico’s decision to stick with USL (I am told the Islanders were the most likely remaining USL-1 side to join the TOA’s new league) keeping Vancouver was absolutely critical.
AUDIO
SET PIECE ANALYSTS PODCAST ON TOA MATTER
MLS TALK PODCAST WITH MIAMI FC PRESIDENT AARON DAVIDSON
Isn’t MLS the first division in Canada?
I don’t understand why MLS and USL have to this point ignored St Louis. What a natural, long term soccer market. Unlike Seattle, Columbus, Carolina, etc, you don’t have to “sell” the game there. It is in the blood in St Louis.
I am glad to see a St Louis team finally playing professional outdoor soccer. It is about freaking time!
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USL’s pre emptive announcement last week was not as well thought out as the TOAs. USL shot their wad. Bringing Detroit and Baltimore up are good ideas but cannot happen overnight. With the exception of St Louis, the TOA has established teams. St Louis is owned by the owner of the WPS Athletica, so I assume they would have a place to play and an ability given the nature of soccer there, to put together a team quickly.
Any idea about an MLS relationship.
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The CSA will reject the application. The USSF wants to accept it because they are controlled by MLS but if they do things legally and ethically, they must also reject it.
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I guess this is Saputo finally giving up on MLS. Makes no sense for him to do this then keep chomping at the bit to take him into MLS in a few years, even though I never thought it would happen.
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So despite all this big market talk, the truly huge market New York, and FC New York is sticking with USL?
Also, isn’t Minnesota broke? How does Jeff Cooper, the spokesperson for this group which is made up of bitter, losing bidders for the USL explain the Thunder being involved?
Traffic and Jeff Cooper are both bitter about losing USL. I do admit that both parties have the resources to spend heavily to set up the league and make it presentable. But after a few years of loses, Traffic will bail and Cooper will lose interest.
The league will then fold since Montreal and Vancouver will have moved to MLS, and everyone will be begging to get back into USL, the longest running league in the US and Canada. USL is a good thing, a consistent thing and something that these guys are trying to ruin.
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Neither release is good. Both groups have troubled parts. USL has FCNY and Cleveland, TOA has Minnesota and Miami. Both groups are trying to show people why they’re better. No one shot their wad too early. It is the failure of both sides to come to a reasonable and equitable agreement for the good of the game in North America. Instead big egos stayed par for the course, and they’ve splintered their resources almost exactly down the middle.
Just keep in mind, while you talk about St. Louis having an established front office, so do the future USL ownership groups in Baltimore, Ottawa and Detroit.
Today is the TOA’s day, just like last Thursday was USL’s. Neither of this is good. A press release is a press release. No one “shot their wad”, they’re putting the most positive spin on what they’ve got. Because of the split, neither have as much as they should.
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@ USL Supporter You really have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. The CSA will pretty much go along with whatever the Impact and the Whitecaps want. Canada only has 3 full fledged pro teams so they are not gonna reject the wishes of 2 of them. All the statement you have made thus far have been comical and just make yourself appear foolish. It is obvious you have no valid info to bring to the table and you are probably trolling in your Mom’s basement.
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Minnesota could be an over riding issue. I personally do not believe Dean Johnson is in a position to continue running that team. I am sure the TOA want that market and that name, one of the oldest in USL behind them. But right now, the Thunder are just a name, and in some senses may damage the credibility of the TOA.
When you consider the stature of the other owners: Jeff Cooper, Joey Saputo, Traffic Sports, etc, it is a little surprising Dean Johnson and Minnesota would even be in the same conversation. The other teams are ready to field competitive teams in a potential new league. Minnesota is not prepared to field a team in a new league OR USL at this point in time.
Here’s hoping Minnesota finds some new investors or an owner that can repair the damage done recently to that proud name. Regardless of what happens between the USL and the TOA, I think we can all agree that losing men’s pro soccer in the Twin Cities is a potential catastrophe.
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USL, I believe is the officially sanctioned Canadian First Division by FIFA. I am not positive though. TFC is sanctioned via the USSF, IIRC. I have to double check though.
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Agreed and we probably should just ignore the troll from now on, except when he puts out misinformation which thankfully, you have corrected for the readers who may be swayed by his mindless rantings.
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MLS 2 perhaps? Nothing about MLS in the release, but they are applying to be a second division, not a first division. So could they work with MLS and bring us prom/rel?
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I’m just glad to have a team in St Louis, the home of American soccer!
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Kartik,
In my never-ending search for answers about how these developments will impact on the future of US Soccer, I am curious about your subjective assessment. Not about the pros and cons of either group but about the effect of 2 competing second division leagues on the sport in the US and Canada. Personally, I think competition is a good thing, will expand the possible markets and let potential ownership groups invest in the League that shares their common vision. Players and coaches must be chomping at the bit to have more opportunities overall.
Your thoughts?
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I’ll give you may thoughts a bit later this morning, but I am finally working on the big article you’ve long encouraged me to write for MLS Talk…it’ll be broken up into a couple parts, but the first one should be up Thursday. Thanks again for your ideas and enthusiasm!
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Looking forward to it. I hope that you can debate/discuss your “white paper” with Trecker in a future podcast.
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The good news is that it will create or bring back second division teams in Atlanta and St-Louis. 2 leagues is not optimal, but more teams in good markets is always good.
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It would be best if the USSF used this opportunity to allow MLS to take over the second division and to shut down USL and this potential new league. Why is it that in other countries the top league heads a pyramid structure which here, the MLS has to fend off USL and is forced to endure the indignity of facing USL squads in CONCACAF.
Either apply for MLS or risk losing your sanctioning. We don’t need competing leagues. We need OUR league, which is MLS to be strong and visible throughout the country.
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Screw these bastards.
They are taking down USL with them.
They are greedy owners who feel their cities are too big for USL.
Miami only gets 1,100 people a game. St Louis could never support a pro team. Minnesota is broke. Carolina for all their bluster only get the same crowds as Miami even if they report more in the paper.
Tampa Bay, the one real strong traditional market in the south saw the hand writing and pulled out smartly.
The owners of Miami FC are involved in third party ownership of several players at big European clubs and also control the TV rights for CONCACAF events, including this weekend’s Costa Rica-Uruguay WCQ playoff.
So let me ask you, why an organization so involved in big world soccer projects would commit to this? The answer: I don’t think they are as committed to this as Kartik and others claim.
They made an investment in Miami FC and have simply used the club to park players they own before they go to Europe or Brazil. They also have used the club to sign young US Youth National Team players and park them before they are sold on to bigger clubs.
In other words, they have no interest in running a league.
Maybe Joey Saputo can get some mob money to fund this thing.
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Heard Tampa was going to jump ship…
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I think if they work closely with MLS they will win the “war” with USL. MLS is the big dog in town, the established brand name and the most popular soccer league across the country. A renegade league gets credibility by working with the status quo.
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I am not sure if people realize this league is being bankrolled by Traffic Sports who own Miami FC but also own the TV rights to many CONCACAF games including this weekends WCQ in Costa Rica, and also own the player rights to several big international players, as third party owners.
If they want to blow USL out of the water they can do it. I read on other websites that Don Garber is supportive of these teams breaking off USL and probably will work with them to create a bonafide second division that works with the first division, MLS instead of competing with it as USL did.
The fact they have the larger markets in this new league, the really desirable ones like Montreal, St Louis, Miami and Atlanta while leaving USL with the likes of Austin, Rochester and Charleston, means they will win the day.
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Very well stated. It will be interesting to see what comes out of this. I expect that we’ll have a good idea just one year from now.
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I like the people involved with the TOA, expect for the delinquent Dean Johnson. I think these people all have the best for North American soccer at heart and will step forward and do a good job.
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Source?
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Irony?
Joey Saputo, new head of the Board of Governers for the TOA Breakaway says:
“I wish to reiterate that there are still ongoing talks between the Montreal Impact and the USL. We continue working on different options for the 2010 season, including the possibility that the Impact take part in the USL-1 or in a new league…”
Let it also be pointed out that this isn’t “rogue” media, but posted on the Montreal Impact’s official website. I’m sorry sports fans, but the saga absolutely continues…
http://www.montrealimpact.com/News/News.aspx?language=EN&ArticleID=1277&Focus=0
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Miami FC/Traffic…are they bigger than Nike? everyone typing here fails to realize that Nike selected NuRock as the owners of the USL..after a red flag popped up with Jeff Cooper (which I suspect is he hooked up with Miami & Carolina)got dumped! Do you think NuRock just wrote Nike a check? I doubt it and the term of the ten year deal remain out of public view. Why? Maybe Nike is still driving the USL bus…..!?!!??!
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Don’t know who told you Puerto Rico was the most likely to joing TOA but the VP of the Islanders told me in no uncertain terms that the team would play with USL and that was the end of it.
Seems to me like the team was waiting to see what would happen but they were really more comfortable with staying in the USL from the beginning.
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You should thank the USL for paving the ground for “OUR” league. The most successful MLS team this year (Seattle) is a refurbished USL-1 team. Why is is that some MLS fans must always feel threatened by the USL??
The point is to work together to elevate soccer, not to go into petty bickering. Get your facts straight before you make stupid comments people.
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Unfortunetly I can’t say who my source is yet.
But, I’m sure we will hear about it soon. Also heard Puerto Rico might still join and a myriad of PDL teams as well (They would form a lower division for the PDL teams)
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Any owner or club on the press release should be banned from involvement in soccer going forward unless they want to move to Europe. The rules of USL are very clear. When you put up your bond, and pay your franchise fee and sign the franchise agreement things are spelled out as to the league’s structure and the processes for expansion, etc. These whining, unethical, TOA members must be banished.
In fact, USL should have busted the TOA to begin with. Join the TOA, and have your franchise agreement voided. Alas, Tim Holt was too nice to these guys and this is the end result.
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That time zone thing is a scoop. I hadn’t heard that before, but it makes sense on a national basis.
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“a criteria for sanctioning by the USSF is that a new professional league (1st, 2nd or 3rd division) have teams in at least three time zones.”
Wow. That’s really stupid. There’s no reason that a new 3rd division league should be in more than one time zone, let alone three.
So much stupidity to go around.
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It makes sense for Division One. But look at AAA baseball. They have two leagues, and east and a west one. Ideally, the USL and TOA could split the country and both be healthier. But this rule is stupid (IMHO) for any division two or three leagues. Really, really stupid.
…and, now that I think about it, I wouldn’t be surprised in the least if the USL somehow snuck that one in to prevent rivals.
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They need eight teams to be approved and need three time zones. I checked around and can actually report both are prerequisites. Kartik is right on the time zones but missed out on the number of teams. So as it is, this application will be rejected, unless the TOA comes up with another team.
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Pingback: Silverbacks update « lou is wrong
In what way does USSF and CSF sanctioning matter? Can they operate without it?
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I wish everything would just become MLS and we could be behind one league and one business model instead of all this protracted BS.
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The time zone thing is actually an old rule that is on the books and should probably be revisited. It is there though if you look at the USSF’s guidelines. Good reporting by Kartik to dig it back up. It’s possible some at the USSF don’t even know it is on the books and won’t hold the new league to it. But since they have the criteria met, they will be okay.
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The new women’s league only started with seven teams. The USSF has allowed other leagues over the years to start with less than eight. I don’t expect them to get picky now. In fact, I’d think if they didn’t get picky about the number of teams that they also wouldn’t be picky about the time zones.
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“A criteria for sanctioning by the USSF is that a new professional league (1st, 2nd or 3rd division) have teams in at least three time zones.” If this is true, what will happen to USL-1 when Portland leaves for MLS? Also they are going to have to do a ton of traveling compared to all other USL-1 teams next year. This is really going to hurt their bottom line. Another item to note: If we could have 3 league with Seattle, Portland and Vancouver all in seperate leagues. I am from the east coast, but as a fan of the beautiful game, I know that situation is just not right!
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For the good of American soccer the USSF must approve this application. These guys have thought it through and tried to work it out with USL and that league has let them down.
I hope the TOA succeed.
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Once you’re sanctioned, you’re sanctioned. The USL could go down to two time-zones and be OK.
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But the key for WPS to get the approval to move forward with seven was clear intent to immediately expand. Kartik would have to speak to this more, but my read of the situation is that the new league /could/ actually be less ambitious early on and still get approved just based on the nature of this breakaway.
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Kartik and I talked about Saputo on the podcast that’s at Set Piece Analysts (just posted it), but it is interesting that the “rogue” media (I like the nice touch with the quotes) has turned out to be ahead of this story all summer.
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I like what I see from the TOA. Big markets, good owners and probably a linkup with MLS/SUM. The big question is how will USL react?
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I wouldn’t trust Francisco Marcos with a rented mule. It’s about time these clubs got up the spine and split! They will be more successful than ever once they are away from the taint of USL.
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The TOA has the high ground morally and ethically. They also have the backing within the USSF and MLS. I think eventually you will see some of the teams that are left in USL bail on that league and its dysfunctional structure and join the new breakaway league.
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They will get a waiver from the USSF and produce an eight team next season.
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You can ask any number of investors in former USL clubs about the league and its leadership and you’ll get the same responses as the TOA give. These issues have been around forever, and we should all be thankful that finally a group of owners banded together and exposed it. USL is an odd creature and quite frankly ought to be put out of its misery.
I don’t know or care for Miami FC, but I listened to your MLS Talk interview with Aaron Davidson and was very impressed by his points, many of which we have seen in relation to USL for years and years.
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2011 would need at least 2 teams to reach 8, and maybe 3.
Unless you think teams in markets like Victoria and Quebec can be anchors competing for attention against NYC, PR, Ottawa.
This thing is complicated, and hasty.
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Whether it is in FIFA statutes or not should not be the determining outcome.
the established precedent around the globe is for owner controlled leagues. How can the clubs have an incentive to invest in the game and take a long term approach for things as the Silverbacks and Impact did if the ownership is simply concerned about short term profits and balance sheets?
You want to know why so many USL teams fold and so few have soccer specific stadiums?
It’s because USL is a for profit business that has no interest financially in the clubs within its league. MLS is the opposite: the league office is paid for, and hired and fired by the clubs do they have an incentive to encourage the building of SSS, the growth of youth clubs and community partnerships, etc.
Do you people know how much money the Silverbacks spent on their SSS, training facility and youth setup? Yet they were called rogues, and outcasts by USL’s head office. That should tell you all you need to know.
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They’ll get more teams for sure. Once they get off the ground and show they can make an owner run league work, no investor is going to want to stay in USL, where the clubs have no stake or input into decisions made by the league. That’s why USL is fighting this so hard. If the TOA league gets off the ground, USL’s professional divisions will eventually collapse as teams move to the new structure.
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Pingback: Team Owners Associtaion/USL Update 11/11/09 – USL Issues Statement Regarding TOA Breakaway League | Inside Minnesota Soccer
Again, perusing the FIFA statutes as some light reading last night I found NO provision calling for club run leagues. None, zero. USL is legally right. However, in researching the structures of many, many foreign leagues and our own MLS, none is run by an outside corporation and all are either run by the respective clubs or the Football Federations in the respective nations whose board of governors is elected by the clubs.
So it is a matter for the USSF to decide. Letter of the law, or established practice? USL is following the letter of the law, while the TOA is following the established practice around the globe.
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Why, exactly, would USL have to show precedent for their format of ownership if it has been established that it’s not contrary to FIFA regulations?
It’s the TOA PEOPLE who have been (ad nauseum) putting out the “it’s against regulations!” canard to justify why they’re doing this, it’s not up to USL to prove that they have a right to do what they’ve been doing for decades.
If the TOA people would just admit they got their knickers in a twist because THEIR guy didn’t buy USL, then we could get somewhere. They’re just pissed off and this is out of spite. Which is yet another reason why American soccer struggles for everything.
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Absolutely, 100% not true.
So many USL teams fold and so few have soccer specific stadiums because the owners of USL teams, traditionally, have been three guys named Moe. They don’t have the money or the vision to think strategically, think long-term and think as a group. Instead, they’d rather blame others for their lot in life.
The enemy is themselves and their lack of capitalization and vision, not the big, bad, evil, profit-mongering USL (as if team owners aren’t in it for a buck. Please.).
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In the interest of transparency and objective assessment of postings here could anyone connected as an employee of either the USL, the TOA franchises and/or USL franchises please indicate so.
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So many lies here, let me correct the record.
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MLS has done little to run a proper first division. They also didn’t act in the most ethical manner in the previous partnership with USL. Thus, the league with the consent of some of the same clubs making trouble today, cut off the partnership. It was probably one thing the TOA clubs and the USL office could agree on.
How exactly have they let them down? Not holding their hand during tough time? Not interfering in the dealing of player contracts, trades and transfers like MLS does?
Part of the reason USL has successfully built a 700 team, multi tiered league is precisely because it is structured the way it is. MLS simply has 15 teams that are part of a single entity structure. The TOA wants something similar. Without USL, no USMNT success would be possible.
Again these were nickel and dime investors as Jason correctly states. These people should have been aware of the risks involved in running a team. It is not the responsibility of Francisco Marcos or anyone else to walk adults who put up money to run a professional or amateur sports team through the risks and responsibilities. Again, this is not MLS with its bizarre single entity structure.
As far as Miami FC, they are dopes but I will give Davidson some respect for his comment to Kartik that Marcos deserves credit for building a strong structure. Of course his lies about FIFA statutes undo that nice sentiment.
The Silverbacks knew very well what USL was about and still they choose to build a SSS and invest dollars in youth clubs. Then when they are losing money they blame the league office. Unlike MLS, which forces everyone to build a SSS, USL has never encouraged teams to live outside their means. Atlanta did and then blamed the league. So who is to blame? The league office that didn’t incur the expenses or the club that did and then threw a temper tantrum and choose not to play in 2009 and thus left their stadium empty for the season?
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I thought your contributions were great, though I’m not sure calling them lies was appropriate. Still, providing the opposing viewpoint was solid. I think both the USL and TOA have valid views, and (of course) that’s why this breakaway league was always going to happen. The TOA clubs have outgrown the USL model, which is not to say that the USL model doesn’t work. For a lot of clubs it does, and it will. But there needs to be another model of a handful of franchises.
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Also, Kartik the fraud is that Minnesota is part of this new league.
The team has NO PLAYERS UNDER CONTRACT AND SUBSTANTIAL DEBTS WHICH THEY HAVE NO POSSIBLE WAY OF PAYING BACK.
The USL release correctly states that the TOA has been dishonest, both about FIFA regulations and about the ability of Minnesota to actually field a team.
It is fraud any way you cut it to apply for sanctioning for a league that contains a team that merely exists on paper. While the USSF can pretend that Atlanta and St Louis do exist and will build a team if approved, Minnesota cannot.
The Minnesota Thunder will never play another match. That we can be 99.9% assured of.
Only Miami, Carolina, Vancouver and Montreal currently have players under contract. So this isn’t a seven team league, but a four team one in reality.
Every current USL-1 team has players either under contract or has had try out for next season. Only four TOA teams have players contracted.
It’s not difficult to see where this is headed.
Carolina has the most to lose. Vancouver is going to MLS, Montreal is going to go to MLS, and Traffic owns other teams and has enough partnerships that the contracted players to Miami FC can be shipped elsewhere.
The Railhawks on the other hand should seriously consider dropping out of the TOA and rejoining USL before next week’s AGM.
We can keep the Carolinas derby going also! 🙂
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A club that has been around longer than just about any in this part of the world is 99.9% assured to never play again? Yes, the Minnesota situation is a mess and troubling, but I think 99.9% is a ridiculous percentage to place on the head of a resilient and venerable club.
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The TOA ceded the high ground to use a war/military term this veterans day by including Minnesota in the release.
I agree that is fraud.
USL’s release as Kartik claims is misleading. I too know of no soccer league owned by a private corporation without a board or commissioner elected by the clubs.
Neither side is covering themselves in glory right now, sadly.
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The false premise of leagues having to be owner controlled, the failure to find eight actual teams, and the fraud of Minnesota.
TOA = DOA.
I won’t lose a minutes sleep if I never see these trouble makers, sharks, con artists and snakes ever again. I wish all seven clubs would crash and burn so that USL can get back to the business of building and maintaining the only soccer pyramid in North America.
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For a league that has been around twenty years, USL certainly is invisible.
I think it is in everyone’s best interest long term that the TOA successfully get this league going and keep a solid, stable second division that maintains a certain degree of consistency from year to year together. It is also important that the league is marketed better to the press and TV. USL has zero presence in markets that are not smallish minor league sports markets like Charleston and Richmond.
Even in Atlanta, Miami, Minnesota and Cleveland the league was a total after thought. If the TOA can brand the league in a fashion to get it on local TV and local news, that will be critical.
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I am glad the TOA is moving forward. I simply wish the Rowdies had not flaked out.
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“The league has applied for second division status from the USSF and first division status from the Canadian Soccer Association. Currently, the TOA league has only seven teams but are seeking partnerships with clubs around the globe and are working on potentially adding more teams for 2010.”
Any idea when the results of the applications will be known?
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I’m guessing a month or two. Steve Goff at the Washington Post reports it could take several months, but my guess is that 6-8 weeks is more likely time frame although the Holidays could push that back a bit.
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I remember reading a 2007 quote from Adrian Hanauer, before Seattle’s acceptance into MLS, that he was running the club as a labor of love, as he was losing $300K-$400K per year(source: http://www.seattleweekly.com/2007-06-13/news/sounders-chief-loyalist-ditches-his-disciples-pursues-mls-dream.php/1). The Sounders averaged just under 3,200 in attendance from 2001-2008. From ’05-’09, 4+ clubs averaged fewer than 3,200 fans. Subtract Vancouver, Portland and possibly Montreal, none of which were in the aforementioned group, and what does that leave for USL-1? One club that drew more than 3,534, Rochester. I wonder where the profits are. Are there any? Did USL make money last year? And the TOA? If Montreal goes, you’re left with a Vancouver2 club in 2011 that I doubt will draw the roughly 5,300 the current MLS bound club draws, a financially insolvent Minnesota team that drew just over 3,200, two other teams that drew under 3,000, an Atlanta club that didn’t draw more than 2,600 from ’01-’08 and St Louis.
So many ways this could turn out. This is a great story to watch.
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Questions Questions and more Questions. This whole thing has so many questions! I am really wondering how everything is going to come together by next spring.
1. If Vancouver is a key team in a new league for the TOA in 2010 and are joining MLS in 2011, are they going to have a team in each league?
2. If not how is a 7 team league going to go to 8 if they lose one of their biggest clubs after the first year?
3. Is Montreal going to be in the same boat if they move to MLS in 2012?
4. Is Tampa Bay using the USL for just one year?
5. Are there any ideas for the name of the new league?
6. Can somebody please ask USSF why in the world would a 3rd divison has to be in 3 time zones!? The USL-2 is mainly on the east-coast and this works for the league. It would be nice to see another 3rd divison on the west coast to help with player development as well as club development. This is a business and the clubs need to grow from the grass roots too. When this is not allowed to happen the right way, we end up with Richmond (in the USL-1 championship game the year prior) and Pittsburg (to big a market for 3rd division) going down and Cleveland going up (not ready as a club).
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